Today I’m sharing an interview I recently did on a podcast about the hiring process in local churches and missions. The Missions Podcast is hosted by Scott Dunford and Alex Kocman, who both work for ABWE, an international mission’s organization. Until recently, Scott was one of the pastor-elders at our church. Both Scott and Alex are good friends. Hopefully that’s clear by the way they tease me a bit, which is a favor I tried to return. This is my second invitation to the show; this winter we talked about the struggle with pornography (here).

I know I was the one being interviewed, but I will say this: in the last 10 minutes of the interview we talk about the way the gospel makes a difference in our identity. And last night as I re-listened to the conversation, I needed to hear these truths again. Maybe you do too.

You can listen to the podcast on iTunes, Stitcher, and Google Play. Or you can simply listen below.

 Here’s what Alex wrote for an intro to our conversation:

Too often in pursuit of full-time ministry abroad or at home, ministry applicants simply email a church or missions agency their resume and leave the rest of the hiring process to chance. Whether you’re fresh out of seminary or transitioning to ministry after a full career in the outside workforce, such a haphazard approach is bound to fail. Maybe we need to learn more about how to conduct ourselves professionally during the onboarding processes into pastoral or cross-cultural ministry.

Benjamin Vrbicek returns to the show to discuss his newest book, Don’t Just Send a Resume: How to Find the Right Job in a Local Church. He believes that the typical pastor or missionary, while fully equipped to do his job, is not equipped to transition effectively when God calls him to move to another ministry context. The book also features short contributions by 12 published authors and ministry leaders including David Mathis, Jared C. Wilson, and others. In the interview, Scott and Alex catch up with Benjamin on a personal level and explore the similarities and dissimilarities between hiring in the ministry world and the secular world, and wrap up with some wisdom on transitioning well.